taura_g | My View: What I see as the Heart of the Matter

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drwex most excellent summation of his views is what I wonder any social community can come to some basic agreement of...

If we cannot find a way to work with each other - despite our different frameworks - to deal with an abuser and social gatherings then we have a pretty deep problem.

In my LiveJournal alone (and I certainly don't have the largest of friends list I know of...), my flist crosses the boundaries of PolyBoston, the local SpinJams, the Burner Crowd, the Kink Community, Community Theater and the MIT Suspects crowd. More than one of them has struggled with this issue and that is a lot of points of view, a lot of history and a lot of different lifestyles.*

So in an attempt to boil an extremely complex situation and discussion into it's simplest form, I am asking for ideas.

Putting aside recent events and escalating disagreements, how would you want to deal with an abuser and social gatherings within your social circle?

Guidelines to keep in mind:

Don't make specific references to people or history*.

This is in regards to gatherings in private settings, ie a person's home.

One person's friend could be another person's abuser.

*(ETA-Forgot to put this at the bottom) I am a historian at heart and have some very passionate ideas on personal history that I may expound upon in a separate post.

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Indeed. I talked about this in my own LJ under the notion of "othering" and "monsters". There are definitely those (perhaps best represented by the_xtina) who feel an absolute hard line is necessary. For them the crime outweighs the humanity. I respect that view, though I don't agree with it.(*)

Then there's another view that I think aroraborealis has articulated, which seems to say that people make mistakes and it's important to understand those mistakes and separate out people who are mistaken, who are honestly trying to redeem their mistakes and so on. Early on, Song noted that part of her attempt to settle with Judah involved him agreeing to admit his actions and take anger management counseling.

I think that this second view would support a rule (and again, I think Song has written along these lines) they would like to see a person who hasn't taken such steps kept out of the group until such steps are taken.

I think a significant chunk of the disagreement between the two sides in this dispute is over whether Judah falls into one or the other view. People have referred to his behavior within their sight or in the time since his attack on Song. In response, Song has pointed to a model of domestic violence patterning and others have pointed out that most rapists are not guilty of single attacks but show a pattern of behaviors.

Enh, I'm just repeating what others have said and I'm not sure I'm adding anything so I'll stop here.

(*) and here's where I check my privilege card and say, yep it's my privilege that lets me do this. If I was not in such a privileged position I might feel differently.

I tend toward the latter view that abusers can redeem themselves and should not necessarily be banned from the community/ies forever. However, I think until such time that the abuser a) acknowledges the abuse, b) that it was wrong and they are repentant, and c) take demonstrable steps to show they are trying to reform their abusive behaviors, I would not want them to be invited back into the community. Of course, then we get into the subjective arguments of what "demonstrable steps" means and how one much observed improved behavior is needed. And, as you note, for some people there may never be enough good behavior to warrant re-entry. And while I have known abusers/accused abusers and have allowed myself to reestablish relationships with them after what I feel is an honest effort to reform, in the back of my mind I do still wonder if that abusive side can ever re-emerge, so I'm still always a touch wary. I suppose my feeling can be summed up as "Forgive, but never forget."

Demonstrable steps can be a kicker at times, but I think that a person would have to be pretty public about the fact that their behavior was wrong and taking steps to repair it anyway, if they wanted forgiveness/reaceptance.

Forgiveness/re-acceptance from/by whom?

I think it is unrealistic to believe that any community of significant size and poorly defined membership can achieve consensus on complex questions like: Did the reported events actually occur as described? Does the behavior in question constitute abuse? Has the abuser properly acknowledged his or her culpability? Is he/she sufficiently contrite? Has he/she taken appropriate actions to prevent reoccurrence? Is it safe to allow the abuser to socialize with us, with our friends who haven't been warned, or with our children?

I think that we have to accept that each person needs to answer those sorts of questions for him/herself, based on his/her knowledge, beliefs and personal experiences. We should understand that people's answers may change over time as the situation evolves. At times, there will be people who feel strongly about opposing answers -- that is unavoidable.

Perhaps the best we can do is to respect everyone's right to reach his/her own conclusions, and realize that holding different views on these issues does not make anyone a bad person. We should try to accept that each of us has the right to decide who we invite to our homes, whether we attend (or stay at) a given event, whether to socialize with a given person, and whether to warn others about the situation.

[Please note: absolutely nothing in this post is specific to Shira or Judah. I don't know either of them well, and I do not know the details of that situation well enough to comment on it.]

Edited 2014-07-16 06:08 (UTC)

Perhaps the best we can do is to respect everyone's right to reach his/her own conclusions, and realize that holding different views on these issues does not make anyone a bad person. We should try to accept that each of us has the right to decide who we invite to our homes, whether we attend (or stay at) a given event, whether to socialize with a given person, and whether to warn others about the situation.

As the conversation has continued, this is the one thing that wish more people would agree on. Respect for everyone's right to reach their own conclusions.

We are not all going to agree. Too many different viewpoints and experiences.

My View: What I see as the Heart of the Matter

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